I originally supported Zeitgeist, not because I believed everything in the movies but from an open discussion perspective - to discuss creative thoughts & ideas to get to the bottom of issues. That is, until I posted a thread in the monetary section titled "Sharia-compliant Banking goes Global" noticing that neither of the Zeitgeist movies makes any mention of sharia-finance. I thought a discussion of it was necessary since ZG seemed so interested in monetary issues. Well, to my surprise they not only didn't want to talk about it they locked the thread to shut it down 3 times & then hid the threads. Which have since been brought back since the creation of this blog. I was verbally abused with insulting comments from Zeitgeist Movement forum members & moderators for even bringing up the subject. Elsewhere at the forum myself and others were abused for criticizing Islam. I couldn't believe it. However, it appears to be happening across the country - watch this video from Purdue University as Nonie Darwish speaks out against Sharia law. Islamo-Fascism and Nonie Darwish Come to Purdue
Now, bare in mind that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Zeitgeist movie creator Peter Joseph - it's not his fault as he himself has criticized Islam strongly:
Peter Joseph "Islam is the most dangerous religion in existence."
It appears to be an issue with the members and moderators of The Zeitgeist Movement (TZGM) and forum who may be hijacking the movement. It appears that criticism of Islam is not allowed in the Zeitgeist Movement - I thought that was odd since they criticize Christianity, America, the US government, the IRS, the US banking system etc so heavily and thoroughly - which I'm fine with but, what's up with the dhimmitude towards Islam? It has me concerned and very suspicious.
I'll share a bit of what I posted & any links so you can see for yourself:
"To demonstrate my point, here's the transcript link for both of the Zeitgeist movies. Do a Ctrl/f to search for the words "sharia," "sharia law," "sharia-compliant," "Islam," "Islamic banking" & "Islamic-finance" etc. Search for anything you can think of about Islam and its monetary system or laws.Have a look at all the quotes and links here Sharia-compliant Banking goes Global
ZG, the movie is 2 hours long - not a single mention of Islam or sharia. Neither sharia banking nor sharia law. No mention of Islam whatsoever and certainly no mention of the Islamic monetary system whatsoever no mention of Islamic banking, sharia-finance, sharia-banking, sharia-compliant investments, nothing, nadda, zippo, ZERO.
Zeitgeist, The Movie - Transcript
ZG, Addendum, is also 2 hours long. Yet, "Islam" is only mentioned 3 times in ZG Addendum but in a general way at the same time as addressing Judaism & Christianity. Again, there was no mention of sharia law, sharia banking or finance or investment or the Islamic monetary system whatsoever.
ZEITGEIST: ADDENDUM - Transcript
The Zeitgeist Movement whether inadvertent or not up-holds Islam as superior by default in the eyes of Muslims since Islam is not addressed. And Muslims are using Zeitgeist to their advantage. We need some balance here. If ZG is attempting to be a worldwide movement then that movement must also address Islamic issues too. By addressing Christianity but not Islam it's only addressing half the problem. It's like addressing the right hand but omitting what the left hand is doing."
Sharia-compliant Banking goes Global
There was absolutely no reason to lock and hide the thread. Locking and hiding that thread demonstrates the level TZGM will stoop to get in line with their dhimmitude for Islam. A movement I no longer trust. Locking and hiding that thread needlessly was absurd but banning me was the last straw. What are they afraid of - or what are they trying to protect? If the facts & evidence presenting sharia-finance going global shows reason for serious concern then, so be it. The Zeitgeist Movement has no problem bashing religion EXCEPT when it comes to addressing Islam. Suddenly, TZGM members find it a useful, convenient tactic to get offended out of proportion & make demands for immediate censorship.
I look forward to the day that TZGM members and moderators have the integrity to criticize Islam equal to the level they criticized Christianity in Zeitgeist part 1.
* Join the ZG forum to post this blog and ask them what they're hiding. Send the Zeitgeist Movement admin an e-mail to let them know how you feel about their default support of Islam: admin@thezeitgeistmovement.com - Tell them censoring the thread and banning anyone for bringing up valid points concerning Islam is very fishy and grounds to be even more suspicious of the motives behind the ZG movement. Hold them accountable for refusal to allow discussion of sharia-finance, sharia-banking, sharia law and for refusing to allow criticism of Islam in general. After all, they have no problem criticizing Christianity, America, the US government, the IRS, the US banking system etc. But sharia finance - anything Islam are off limits at TZGM forum - that's just odd and makes me very suspicious. Don't become a Dhimwit
* Added edit Aug 22, 09: I was giving the Zeitgeist movement members the benefit of the doubt but now this thread has been sent to me showing how the ZG moderators are still locking threads and banning people for posting news articles critical of Islam with the mod "Azzy" commenting:
"Locking this thread due to your blog link, you are here spreading dis-information with malicious intent. Please dont create any other accounts to further your agenda."
And by "blog" I guess he meant THIS very blog. And, I guess they assume that anyone who criticizes Islam must be another one of MY accounts. What a load of crap. Everything in this blog is easily verifiable. I think I've seen enough & I'm disgusted - TZGM seems to have been hijacked by dhimmi's & dhimwits who won't allow REAL criticism of Islam. TZGM has just lost ALL credibility. As far as I'm concerned TZGM definitely supports Islam!
Sources:
Islam in Action
Islam's European Conquest: Is America Next?
Modern Day Trojan Horse: Al-Hijra, The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration
The Hijra
Sharia-compliant Banking goes Global
GAFFNEY: Treasury submits to Shariah
Court allows Mich. man’s AIG suit over Islamic insurance to go forward
AIG, Sharia and Uncle Sam
AIG law suit: TMLC fights Sharia Law
Robert Spencer on Shariah Finance
Islamo-Fascism and Nonie Darwish Come to Purdue
Western Interest in Islamic Finance Increasing
Britain's a world-leader in sharia banking
Replace capitalism with Islamic financial system: cleric
Global Banks Embrace Islam
Jihad comes to Wall Street
Harvard Goes Halal
The 300 Billion Dollar Bailout of Sharia Finance
* I'm adding my response to the comment below because for whatever reason blogspot won't allow me to comment in my own blog right now. So until I figure out why:
Thanks for your comment!
I find the situation at TZGM forum appalling because the movies make such a big deal about exposing the "truth" - they thoroughly criticize "Christianity, America, the US government, the IRS, the US banking system etc so heavily but the censorship of criticism of Islam by TZGM members and forum moderators is a red flag that the movement is being hijacked by Islamists, dhimmi's and dhimwits.
Islam and Christianity make up over 50% of the worlds population and they're both in competition with each other for dominance. In a worldwide movement such as TZGM You can't criticize one without inadvertently benefiting the other - Muslims hold up ZG as evidence that Islam is a superior religion to Christianity by default since ZG never addresses Islam, sharia. ZG can be seen from the point of view as anti-American and anti-western culture in general and therefore, pro-Islam, pro-sharia etc. Just try to watch ZG from the viewpoint of a Muslim.
If TZGM is desperate for support and really concerned about "alienating someone" I can see why with the potential to view ZG as anti-US, anti-American, anti-western culture without ever criticizing the Islamic ideology, culture, gov'ts, sharia law, sharia banking etc.
Even though demonstrating Jesus to be a myth pulls the carpet out from under Islam since the Koran mentions Jesus so much. If Jesus is a myth then what does that say about the Koran? Islam simply demotes Jesus from the position of "son of God" to a mere prophet - this is historically how religious competition has been fought for thousands of years - it's old news.
I would like to see the creators of ZG do another movie specifically on Islam to address these issues to bring more balance into the movement. Both of these religions need to be completely neutralized from taking any power in any way. Lets leave them in the DARK AGES where they belong.
I'd love to see a global principle designed to separate religion from state. Allowing people to truly be free - especially in Islamic countries where one might be considered an apostate for which the penalty could be death for leaving Islam. So, how can TZGM expect to get far as a worldwide movement while refusing to address Islam?
Hey man...I think I stumbled onto your thread from Sam Harris' forum. Anyway I just wanted to let you know I'm going to shoot an email over to the moderators or maybe even voice my concern in a radio address question to Peter because I too am concerned and feel sorry that you were pushed away from the movement. I have not read your initial post but I have noticed that mods are just banning anything they subjectively think is not relevant to the topic at hand. Although it is very unfortunate that this happened to a fellow zm supporter...I believe this behavior may have come from having to walk that thin fine line on our tippy toes just so we are not immediately alienating people. The movement is desperate for support as you know and I truly believe there are some great ideas and intelligent minds that recognize its value. Unfortunately people are afraid of the open criticism of religion (especially Islam because of its fundamental nature and militant history) and they want as much as they can to unite people of different ideas rather than push certain groups away. If a mod thought your comments were too over the top and would paint zm as merely a "destroy religion" movement...that scares people and the mods don't want to see people being alienated. If you ask me I think it's wrong and they clearly succeeded in alienating someone! Take it easy and maybe I'll check back in with you.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead and critisize Islam, the religion of PEACE!!!,u think your on to something coz u took a verse from the Holy Quran, and read it with no understanding.Islam is the only way of life that can offer humanity peace, whether atheist,deist,jewish etc.Islam is divine,if u have any system other than this can we have it please?all man-made systems have failed time and time again. Islam has given freedom to millions of people worldwide,especially women.Critisize all you want boss u will end up the loser i guarantee u.peace be with u.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped that our debate on the subject would have continued there, as someone living in a religious area I also get to see the good side of religion, even though I'm an athiest!
ReplyDeleteI'm not entirely sure the reasoning behind TZM's unwilliness to debate various subjects, it might be because its a hot potato, or it might be todays rather overzealious PC attitude towards some subjects being on the don't talk about list.
Then again, things can also go downhill in a debate if anyone gets emotional and insulting, and users can get banned, not for the subject, but because they are upset and deemed to be breaking the rules that way. (After all, I still manage to debate there, perhaps because I manage to be more PC polite when doing so.) As I often cover the same difficult subjects that seem to get others thrown out. (Though this is increasing becoming more and more difficult as the lines in the sand get redrawn that I too see its becoming perhaps a bit too far skewed towards a don't talk about certain things direction.)
When some talk about the bad side of religions, I might imagine they are talking about immigration instead in some cases.
It seems the only way to really debate in the world today is to get your own site and then you can talk about what you want :-)
Not to fan what is essentially a non-issue, however in reply to the 3 comments here, there is one thing that I think is overlooked.
ReplyDeleteSimply, the Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of The Venus Project. It exists to promote the core tenets of The Venus Project; accepting the earth's resources are the common heritage of all and focusing our resources on generating abundance of that which we all need. That's all! Right now we're in the "spreading info" phase.
The Zeitgeist Movement does not exist to be host to every bit of misinformation, perceived manipulation, grievance personal or public, or outright lie that exists, nor does it exist to expose this or that religion for every lie ever told.
I followed some of your posts, and you, this blog owner, were frankly very hostile, confrontational & rude to anyone who challenged you, and above everything, very emotional about a subject that has little to do with the above stated purpose.
After _numerous_ attempts to convey this information to you so that you may be empowered by it, you simply ignored it and continued posting long messages & loud calls to action about the same info, repeatedly.
Such, if you're looking for reasons why you forced a ban, you need only look in the mirror. I'm sorry this isn't more clear, but sitting from here, I don't know what else anyone could have done given the circumstances.
(adding, if you're honest with this blog, you owe it to your readers to post ALL sides of the issue, even the ones you don't agree with. So if you don't allow this comment, the reason why is painfully obvious)
Sad most things the zeitgeist movement mentions in their documentay's are already mentioned by detail in the quran and the hadeeths.
ReplyDeleteIts totally ok to bash islam you will not be the first and only one to do it but at least do it in an intelligent way with giving evidence and let your opponent respond to it.
Islam is the biggest enemy of the New World Order and Free masonry I am proud of that.
As a muslim,i find it confusing.they say nothing about islam but they criticised other religions strongly.Why is that?Are they afraid of something or do they find islam divine?yes,islam does not depends on astrological events like christianity but i expect them say something about it.and i think that makes them unreliable.
ReplyDeletePeter Joseph is against Religion
ReplyDeletePeter Joseph is against Islam
Period
Monetary system and religion. Islam
ReplyDeleteAccording to Peter Joseph, the fractional reserve monetary system is the destructive basis of the global economic system.
All religious cultures have a place in the economic system, and are in relationship with him according to their own nature. Without going into the spirituality of every religion, we can study the relationship of each religious culture with the money to observe the principles of action arising out of their way of thinking. Christians have condemned usury for a long time, and the system has finished digesting them. The Jews, prohibited interest loans to each other but not with the rest. I do not know if they have been digested by the system, or if them are the origin of it. Muslims are the only ones that, directly from their bible, universally prohibit loans with interest; it is possible that the system is also digesting them, but no other culture has shown such level of coherence in this central issue wich is money. Application of interest being the main stimulus for the bank to grant loans more and more, to the verge of implementing the fractional reserve law that raises the potential for satisfaction to the absurd, I think the Islamic banking should be recognized as a human background manifestation which has remained more pure than any other in this particular material plane. I'm not going into the nature of any religion. I only speak about the relations of the various religions with the monetary system. I am convinced that Islam can be recognized by this, although such recognition does not imply acceptance of their religion, nor does the comparison between religions. I think the main reason for wich Islam claims that the Western lifestyle is 'Evil' is the monetary system itself, and this is the same cause said Peter Joseph from Zeitgeist Movement as maximum destruction and disorder power. This does not mean that there is an attitude for or against Islam. In any case, i speach is limitted to not criticise Islam, that's acceptable; if one considers that this figh has no to do with religions, but with monetary system, which is considered a universal enslaving, without a flag or creed, that hangs over every human being in the earth.
I think the debate focused on money and fractional reserve monetary system is capable of reducing differences betwen religious positions since money, as impurity, is essentially a confidence destroyer. Maybe ZM is still too small to face this challenge, but it seems that this is the goal that's up to the men who state that money is the one shit that turns all into black. I'm with them.
Regards
(i apologize for my english)
i don't think they want to be accused of bigotry. if you look at it, western society has pretty much allowed people to bash christianity, but with world events going on, it isn't surprising to me that they would be a little afraid of reprsisal, in fact i would expect it.
ReplyDeleteNow as to the Sharia Finances, i have had no problem talking about it on the forums. It isn't that hard if you present your case in a valid way. I support Sharia Finance, because it is proven to work, but isn't as profitable, with the modern capitalist style finances, it has been known to make a crap load of money in a short amount of time, but is unreliable in the long run.
I've just had my first Zeitgeist experience. I'm quite overwhelmed - two hours and forty minutes of crazy stuff.
ReplyDeleteWell here's my two cents on your issue: Islam is just another offspring of a Jewish system (as is Christianity).
By telling us that Chrisitanity is a bogus belief, they are essentially covering Islam and Judaism as well.
(To understand my point, you need to know that Islam sees itself as a continuation of Christianity and Judaism). I guess they would address Christianity the most because it is the ruling system in today's world?
Well that's how I saw it anyway.
I actually stumbled upon Zeitgeist after watching Bill Maher's "Religilous" (which was brilliant). I noticed Bill Maher bashed Christanity an aweful lot. Then he regurgitated a Fox interpretation of Islam (kaboom!), and all the while, he did not bash Judaism. I was a bit pooped about that since the documentary did a good job of ridiculing the other two. Maybe he was afraid of being called an anti semite.
I came across your posts through googling 'zeitgeist on Islam' as after watching the movie again a couple years after watching it for the first time i felt a huge need to know their stance on islam as as you so clearly put .. there is no argument put forth.. only christianity has been analized. Very fishy I felt too! I'm happy my brain is working.. my gut feelings are on target. Any more new on this anyone?
ReplyDeleteI came across this post from a link in a lengthy comment to a post I made at The Conservative Underground.
ReplyDeleteFrankly I know little about The Zeitgeist Movement and will have to check into it; however to dismiss the agenda of purist Islam to dominate the world is a grace mistake.
If the zeitgeist movement says =no religion= they mean -no relegion.
ReplyDeletethat is why I am fond of the zeitgeist movement.
we are going to have to find a new way of organising a society, and we are going to do it without predudice, no religion, no ism's etc. just people.
why are you making such a big point of islam ? it doesn't mather if it's islam or christianity, al of those are beliefs. it's all the same, beliefs. they don't matter.
'we' don't do beliefs, 'we' do science.
so stop wasting your time on islam, it really does not matter. it will pass.
The contributor above doesn't seem to understand that Islam is about 20% religion and 80% ideology.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm interested in this movement and would be pleased to understand how it intends to address Islam. If it doesn't, it lacks credibility.
duh... it is just another weapon being used by islam to undermine peoples trust in their govt, country and self! divide and conquer... looks like it is quite effective. strange how political islam is behaving exactly like the "illuminati" ... hello mindcontrol tactics goodbye freedom. islam encourages its followers to lie, cheat and decieve in order to further the islamic agenda of aggression. many conspiracies are simply islamic propaganda.
ReplyDelete